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Note: The comments page has been very active lately. Thus, I split it into multiple parts. To see the older comments, look here, or, HERE And, even older comments can be found: HERE.
If you have any comments on this website, or just want to send Ken a message....
Ron:
The primary GPS on Sans Souci stopped working suddenly a few nights ago. I assumed it was the heat inside the boat -- but, now you've got me wondering. I'll google to see what articles I can find. Currently, I haven't the vaguest idea what WAAS data is... I'll relay this to the crew. They seemed stumped earlier today when I spoke with them.
As to Siberia. I remember reading the article you are talking about, and spoke recently to the owner of the boat you are referring to (Idylwild). My recollection is that they had no permission to be in Siberia and "just took a chance." They are very lucky they didn't lose their boat or get arrested.
Thank you! - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (10/11/2008 10:50:37 PM) Ken,
Do you remember the Canadians who went around the world in a 55 foot aluminum powerboat? One thing they pointed-out about their entry into a Siberian port. They learned that you must lay off the port and wait for a vessel come out and inspect you. They then accompany you into port. Not laying off leads to significant problems for your "invasion fleet."
Are you aware of the GPS WAAS problem resulting from the lauch of a Defense satellite? This has resulted in most receivers of GPS data showing a blank for that data. If Jeff encounters this problem, he should turn-off the WAAS feature and this should cure the problem. For some manufacturers including Furuno, this means a ROM upgrade. If your GPS compass relies upon WAAS, it will require the same fix.
Ron Rogers
Comment by: Visitor (10/7/2008 12:23:21 PM) Ken,
www.nhc.noaa.gov shows Norbert making a right turn into the path that you showed in your blog for San Socci.
MxCoder
Comment by: Visitor (10/6/2008 3:18:18 PM) Hi Ken,
I've been following your blogs and am especially exited on your plan to go to Japan next year. (I am originally from Japan !) I look forward to seeing your updates on your plan going to Japan.
Hidehiko
Comment by: Visitor (10/5/2008 9:34:10 PM) Ken,
Your site will not accept my password. Then I provide my email address and it says invalid email address, Then I try to register and it says that my email address is already registered. Are you a fan of "Catch 22"?
In addition, recently I have posted two comments (questions really) and they have not appeared and therefore, no response. Same for an email that I sent.
Am I in an email black hole?
Thank you,
Ron Rogers
rcrogers6@kennett.net
Comment by: Visitor (10/4/2008 10:43:32 AM) Hi Ken,
Are you aware of the MV Westward? A wooden vessel built in the 20's(I think) she just completed a Pacific journey lasting 18 months. They traveled the opposite route you are planning a thought you might review their log for tips. I received a pdf from a news agency as
http://www.classicyacht.org/westward/wp-content/WestwardRelease.pdf
Hopefully it helps.
JC
Comment by: Visitor (10/2/2008 6:20:45 AM) hi ken
I recall that someone suggested you convert to dripless shaft seals
I dont know if you have been following the speculation as to the cause of the
sinking of the florida bay coaster steelaway during rough weather on chesapeake
bay. what appears to be the offical cause is now given as one battry braking loose
and damaging the the starboard dripless seal ,the damage allowing enough water
on board to fatally comprimise her stability.
If you do go the dripless route could you change a damaged bellows without a
haulout ,in remote locations how many haulout facillates are there that could handle
sans souci.?
regards
allan l
Chuck: I'm hoping to avoid it, but am willing to bet I do some portion of the run. It won't take to much to get me on the boat; I'm really missing being at sea. This is the longest I can remember us being without a boat.
That said, it's going to be a horrible run. The boat will be fine, but it will be a really uncomfortable run. The guys will be bucking a current and headwind most of the way north.
The guys think they'll be here in three weeks, but I'm guessing closer to six weeks. I've told them that they should sit still whenever the forecast is dubious.
-Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/25/2008 5:34:43 PM) Ken-Might it be a good idea for you to make part of the trip north with Jeff so you can expand your heavy weather experience in an effort to be better prepared for the trip to Japan? Chuck
David:
I responded to your comment in the wrong place... look at the bottom of my blog entry from yesterday to see my response.
-Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/19/2008 7:43:42 PM) Hi Ken
Just reading your latest blog about fuel efficiency and noted that you were getting higher fuel consumption on your port engine.
Any ideas why this might be? I had thought that the fuel consumption numbers would have been more closely matched
Thanks
David
Chuck: My recollection is that Nordhavn warranties their boats for a year. On their site they have a dvd they give away for free, the theme of which is their corporate slogan "Do the right thing". If you haven't seen it, it's worth watching, and does a good job describing their corporate culture. I've never had any problem whatsoever getting them to honor my warranty on this or my prior boat. They've been quick to make repairs and even sent people to my boat, at their expense, more than once. In my case, we're past the one year warranty, but I'll be surprised if they don't 100% honor the warranty. This all said.. they are a small company, and disorganized at times. Overall.. I'd rather be dealing with Nordhavn than any other boat manufacturer on warranty items. They are good people, who do occasionally make mistakes, but can be relied on to fix them - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/8/2008 7:16:12 PM)
Ken-Very interesting comments regarding your electrical system. Is any work they do on your system 100% paid for by them, or is there cost sharing in warranty work? Thanks! Chuck
Chuck: I've never heard of extraordinary electrolysis problems on Nordhavns, and in nine years of reading the Nordhavn Owners Group I've rarely seen the issue. I replaced my zincs when the boat was in Seattle, but not because it was needed, only because the boat had been hauled out, and it usually makes sense to replace them during a haul-out. Recently, they were inspected by a diver in Costa Rica, and looked fine.
This said, I do believe there is a wiring issue on my boat that is partially, or fully, responsible for the a/c problems. I was just on the second 68 and spent time fiddling with their a/c units. It was like being on a completely different boat! They worked flawlessly and the lights didn't even flicker. Nordhavn has offered repeatedly to solve my problems, at their expense. I asked them to hold off until the boat was sitting still in the Pacific NW. Actually, I've sent them conflicting messages, in that more recently I've been telling them that I want to swap the chillers rather than fix the chillers. Being on the second 68 softened me. I now realize that the chillers can work flawlessly if installed correctly. It will not surprise me if Nordhavn sorts it out in 15 minutes. And, it currently seems that they'll get their chance. The boat will be passing Dana Point on its way north. My guess is we'll "visit" for a few days and get some much-needed warranty work taken care of.
-Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/8/2008 6:34:27 PM)
Ken-Two questions. (1) Is excessive electrolysis a problem on your boat? How long do your zincs last? I have heard (rumors) there are some poor design issues on some N.H. models where the boats electrolysis system are running through zincs at an extraordinary rate? (2) If there are design/engineering issues with electrolysis then could the same be said for the other wiring and hence part of your problem with the chillers?
Chuck
As to Grey Pearl: I'd rather leave it to Braun and Tina, or Nordhavn's sales group, to comment on their thinking. I know that they still hope to go with us, either on the Pearl (if it doesn't sell), on a new boat, or we'd certainly be honored to have them as crew on our boat. -Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/6/2008 4:40:15 PM)
Too bad about Grey Pearl. If you don't mind, why are they selling? A new boat in the works or done with boating for a while?
Steven: Yes -- that's the same Grey Pearl, and is a problem. We had dinner with Grey Pearl's owner last week, and they broke the news. I'm very disappointed, but not giving up. There are still two of the three boats planning to make the trip (us and Starr), and I have feelers out to several other boats. I like the idea of three boats much better than just two. I'm confident we're still doing the trip, but it may not be with the Pearl. -Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/5/2008 7:31:55 PM)
Hi Ken,
I have noticed in your comments that you intend to cross to Japan next year taking the northern route with Grey Pearl & another boat. I have just noticed the Pearl listed on the Nordhavn Brokerage site.....what will this do to your plans?
Steven
Steven: I am forcing myself not to comment on Yachtpath. All I can say is that they have given me three shipping dates, missed two (both at the last minute) and appear on track to miss the third. Hopefully they'll turn it around in the coming days and will transport my boat, but I'm making plans now to run it on its' own bottom "just in case."
The run north is around 3,500 miles. We could easily do it with one fuel stop, but will probably stop three or four times for fuel. There's no reason to ever cut it close, and the fuel stops give the crew a chance to rest, and help break up the trip. They're good for morale. My guess is that we'll take on fuel at Golfito, then Puerto Vallarta (or Cabo), then San Diego, and then run non-stop to Seattle.
Realistically, I'm betting that half the days will be spend just sitting in port waiting for a weather window.
I still don't know how much (if any) Roberta and I will be on the boat. It's a long boring story, but we are essentially homeless. We had built our plans around living on the boat now, and with the boat stuck in Costa Rica, we are wandering from hotel to hotel. An uphill run non-stop in bad weather doesn't sound fun .. but, we are definitely homesick for the boat -- so, maybe. We were talking about doing some runs on it as soon as it gets here, just to bring me back up to speed on driving the boat. I haven't driven the boat since April! I'm worried I'll have forgotten how.
-Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (9/1/2008 6:57:35 PM)
Hi Ken,
Your troubles with Yachtpath will no doubt cost them a lot of business as your story spreads, just the sort of advertising that companies try to avoid. Would i be right in thinking that your boat could make the run north on its own bottom with 1 fuel stop at Cabo? All the best with finding a good weather window and hopefully it will be an uneventfull trip.
Steven
Jack ... I posted a response HERE
Comment by: Visitor (8/25/2008 8:49:45 AM)
Hi Ken:
I've been following your discussion about crud in your intakes. I just returned from a charter vacation in BVI. Upon returning the boat, I had a chance to visit with the charter company's operations manager, and I asked him how often they had to clean the intakes on their boats. I assumed it would be frequently like you experienced with your boat. He told me that they only clean them out during haul out once a year. I was surprised, and relayed your experience to him. He mentioned that the important thing is that the marina must have water flow. For example, the marina at Nanny Cay has two creeks that run to the ocean, which allow the marina basin to flush itself with tide and current forces. He said that if your boat was sitting in a stagnant marina, that would allow the "crud" to grow more rapidly. I don't know exactly how the water temps in Tortola compare to Costa Rica, but I bet they are pretty close. My best guess is that your boat is sitting in a stagnant marina. I hope this helps. I would be interested to read thoughts that anyone else might have on the subject. Love your blog. Thanks.
Jack Meyer
Comment by: Visitor (8/15/2008 1:38:41 AM)
ken, at 4:28 of this video is that your old nordhavn 62?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWgczxkcfg&feature=related
jon
To the person who posted the CNN Article: As you requested, I've removed the story.. just post a link to it -- or, email me the link (kenw @ seanet.com) and I'll post it.
Good article! - Ken W
Mike: Good timing on your comment! As I type this we are 15 minutes from leaving for the airport to go to Charleston to spend a day with the Sidburys, and see their boat. My primary goal is to see what innovations David and Nordhavn have come up with, so that I can retrofit some of the good ideas to my boat. I'm sure I'll have some good comments, and pictures to post sometime in the next couple of days. David and I communicated virtually every day for the past couple of years as we built our boats, and did captain's school together last year. A great (and, super-intelligent) guy. All future N68 owners owe him a favor, as do I. Thank you - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (7/31/2008 9:56:30 AM)
Ken,
While delivering a boat this month, we stopped in Charleston, SC for the night. By chance, N-68 02 (or 08) was there, Grace of Tides. My crew & I had the occasion to meet David Sidbury who gave us the tour of his new boat. He could not have been more gracious- what an outstanding guy. We went from top to bottom, and David pointed out differences between your boat and his. He also gave some impressive numbers on his trip up from Stuart, FL concerning fuel burn, RPM's etc. It was great to actually visualize this vessel after seeing yours on a computer screen. We both really appreciated the opportunity to take the tour, and enjoyed our conversation with David- he was very congenial. Mike Warren
Jon: I'm not sure. I have been asking that question of other boats that have made the run, and the conscensus seems to be that we are safer on the north side of the islands.
My guess is that we'll run the north side of the Aleutians until we get to Adak (the western-most place to get fuel in the Aleutians) and then if we are going to Siberia we'll continue to stay north, or if we are not able to get a visa for Siberia, we'll cut directly south west to Japan (2,000 of open ocean!).
That said.. the group hasn't met to discuss routes yet, so no decision has been made at this point. I REALLY hope we can get into Siberia. There is no way I want to do the 2,000 nm run non-stop. It will be typhoon season, and that would put us on a major 11-12 day passage with no place to hide. - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (7/24/2008 4:30:48 PM)
ken, which side of the aleutians are you going to travel on, north or south? is there a safer side when going west to east? jon
Jim E: Yes -- I should have made that clear. There are two cranes on the boat, and they do the lifting using both cranes -- so, they could have lifted 80 tons. However, my boat weighs right at 100 tons. Had the captain tried to lift my boat, it probably would have been a disaster. I know a bit about how the mess occured, but not the whole story. At this point, I am focused on nothing more than wanting my boat back in Seattle. There are indications now that it might be possible by mid September. I hope so! - Ken W
Ken,
I am assuming that the "40t" on the crane that was to be used to load Sans Souci refers to 40 tons. If so, no wonder the captain refused to load her.
Jim E.
Jon: Sorry being slow responding. All of the confusion around the shipping of my boat has kept me busy.
My batteries are broken into multiple banks, and battery charging is complicated. I don't know that I completely understand all that is happening. Each engine (the two main engines, and the two generators) have their own starting battery, and have alternators that charge them. There is also a house battery bank, which has two different sources of battery charging: the inverters, and a standalone battery charger. Actually .. there is a third way to charge the house batteries. The main engine alternators have the ability to send current to the house bank for battery charging.
So --- I wouldn't begin to remove the diodes on the alternators. This is more complex than I understand. - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (7/9/2008 3:09:12 PM)
one of thing to consider if you are going to do a lot of work changing the electrical system is removing the diodes from the alternators. from setsail website:
If you have a big battery bank, you need a powerful charging source to provide the necessary minimum charge rate. This means large alternators running at full output for many hours. Normal alternators become extremely hot in this type of application and quickly fail from overheating.
The alternators we have been using for the past two decades, made specifically for us by Electrodyne, are rated for full field output. The will deliver 150 amps/28V charging rate for hours, and stay relatively cool.
One of the secrets used is to remove the diodes from the alternator case. These are mounted in a remote, fan-cooled, rectifier assembly.
jon
Thank you Ted. I did speak with Martha last week. She wasn't positive she could help us and asked that I give it a couple weeks for her to think about it. She seemed startled by the idea of three power boats arriving at once, and thought this would be very difficult. According to her the Russian military is active in the Kamchatka area, and is very sensitive to boats arriving.
I hope we can solve this, because if not, we have to go non-stop from Adak (the eastern-most island in the Aleutians) to Hokkaido non-stop. This would represent an 1,800nm passage with nowhere to hide from Typhoons.
-Ken W
An article on yachting in Kamchatka is on the following link
http://www.yachtingmagazine.com/article.jsp?ID=21014429
Interestingly they got permission to cruise up and down the coast.
They had help from Martha Madsen who runs a business called Explore Kamchatka. Whether this is the same Martha Illywhacker contacted I don't know.
A Google search came up with
http://www.explorekamchatka.com/
in Alaska and
http://www.kamchatkatourism.com/
Ted
Another site with Russian information is
http://home.clara.net/rayglaister/russia.htm#crutop
This details trips on the European side of Russia. In one set of articles he travels from St Petersburg up through the canals to the White sea and then over the top of Norway.
Sadly the site has not been updated since 2004.
It appears that one needs to be invited by a Yacht Club or an individual before one can apply for Visa and other paperwork.
The following site is not that relevant as they went over the top of Russia but does touch on the bureaucracy involved and what can be organised if one is determined
http://www.northabout.com/index04.htm
The Nordhavn 62, Great Pearl, that you saw is the same boat that we crossed the Atlantic with in 2004. We were supposed to be cruising Alaska together this summer, but my boat is still stuck in Costa Rica. Our run to Japan next year will be Grey Pearl, Starr (a Northern Marine 75) and ourselves. -Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (7/2/2008 12:48:57 PM)
Whale Song was featured in the most recent (August 2008) issue of Passagemaker Magazine. Perhaps they could put you in touch with the owner.
On another note, I saw N62 Grey Pearl yesterday northbound near Lund, BC. Interestingly, there is also now a N55 named Grey Pearl that I saw a few weeks ago outside of Pender Harbour. Good luck with the Japan via the Aleutians trip, it sounds quite ambitious but a lot of fun.
Ted: I responded to you here:
http://nordhavns68.talkspot.com/aspx/blob2/blobpage.aspx/msgid/463430/beid/6332
- Ken W
I think going over to a three phase boat would involve new generators, a new Atlas unit and a major rewire. At the end of the day it would not solve the high start up current problem. Your best solution is converting the airconditioning compressors to a soft start system.
Changing the subject the motor yacht Whalesong made the trip from Dutch Harbour to Japan last year. They only have one sentence on the trip across the Bering Sea (rough) but do give some insight to the problems of getting into Japan. No doubt they could give you further information.
Their site is http://www.mywhalesong.com/
The site is a little flaky when navigating around at the moment, a more dirct link is
http://web.mac.com/jbfoto/WS_Logs/East_Asia/Archive.html
Ted
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 7:47:27 PM)
Ken,
Sounds like a good alternative to research. I am unfamiliar with "Technicold". I, like you have seen hundreds of CruisAir systems. The only things that raises my attention is the "Dumb-beast" functioning. Having serviced large tonnage chilled water plants the simplistic systems need an onsite technician to monitor the plant to prevent failures. Imagine the chilled water loop losing a hose, without a safety feature to shut down the compressors problems quickly cause catastropic failure. I personally like the computer interface. Regardless of the compressor brand the most complex feature you are introducing are the VFD's. These are serious machines that are not serviced by just anyone. Some build up voltages in the capacitors over 10,000 volts. Not to deter you but again I like the systems with logic to help monitor. I love the setup you are introducing, currently I am designing something similiar for my home using ground water heat transfer.
As far as the generator I am sketchy on the details. In commercial buildings we don't have inverters, Atlas systems or batteries. We do have backup generators but that is direct load transfer from the grid.
JC
JC: It's good to hear I'm not totally nuts, and others have had the same issue. As to the chillers, the leading idea is to go with a completely different brand of chiller. I was at Lugger a couple of days ago and looked at a chiller they have just started selling, from a company called "Technicold". I don't know much about it, other than the size fit nicely, and the unit looked super-simplistic. I currently have four 36,000 BTU units. The unit I saw at their office was a 60,000 btu unit, and I could get away with two of them. It was a super-dumb beast. You have one control to set the low, and the high, loop temp, and then an on/off. It looked like something I could fix, whereas the Cruisair intimidates me (which is funny to say, because I'm a super-techy guy). I may not need a screen for the a/c system. This seemed really simple. I'll put two of the units, and put a breaker for each on the electrical panel. I can run one or two, units, simply by flipping the on/off switch, and make the decision based on power available. With soft start, having two come on at once isn't a big deal. The 60,000 btu unit said that it uses 16 amps. That would be awesome, and handle the boat 99% of the time. I will also look at what Cruisair has, but space is a huge issue for me. The larger cruisair units don't seem to fit where I need them. If I do swap to a different brand for the chillers I'll still use the Cruisair air handlers, circ pump, and cooling pump.
As to the generator. I'll ask. All of this is a bit over my head. Wouldn't I also need to swap my other generator, and the inverters, and make changes to the Atlas? So that everything is three-phase?
-Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 5:50:13 PM)
Ken,
That wasn't hard, I found the link for the CruisAir software. http://www.cruisair.com/TWLCinstall.html
Hope it helps
JC
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 5:45:49 PM)
Ken,
Wow, I haven't read your website in a few weeks and it seems you are really tackling the HVAC issue. You mention that you are replacing the chillers with the new 3 phase comp's and installing vfd's to drive them to the desired load. Are you also going to install CruisAir's computer interface? I believe this allows some monitoring (maybe you could remotely monitor and adjust the chilled water loop temperature for example) and adjustment. Also if your getting a new generator why not upgrade to a 3 phase generator. This would allow you to run the compressor in a pinch if the VFD's fail with what is referred to as a bypass contactor. I do this all the time in HVAC loads for commercial buildings. Look at the start and run load amps for the 3 phase units, amazing how different they are from single phase. By the way where is the dumpster you are throwing all the old "junk" into? ;). One more thing, you are not the only one with this issue. Your just one of the few who have a platform for us to hear it. Manufacturers have been saying "Your the only example we have ever heard with this problem" for years. Good Luck with everything.
JC Jannarone
My Outback inverters do not have an option to use the batteries to supplement the generator, and handle the surge. Victron's newer inverters do offer this as an option. I asked Outback if they planned to add it as a feature, and they said they had no plans. One possible solution is to swap out my inverters for Victron. My current thought though is to reduce the number of inverters. I need to do something to free up some space in my lazarette, and reduce complexity. My current plan is to reduce the number of inverters, cut the size of the battery bank, go with soft start chillers, and increase the size of my 16kw generator to 20kw (they are the same form factor). Basically, I'm going to convert it to a boat which requires the generator to always be running when away from the dock. This has pros and cons, and can be argued for hours... I did see your comment about using the PTOs to provide power hydraulically. I currently have hydraulic alternators that can give me 500 amps of 24 volt power. I'm not sure this couldn't be fixed, but currently my testing shows that they are increasing the engine fuel burn by more gallons per hour than using the generator. Electrical systems are so much fun! -Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 2:20:50 PM)
the puzzling part is why your batteries aren't taking up the surge. this is essentially victrons strategy. they suggest using a smaller generator and use the batteries to take start up loads. some boats size the generator for start up loads which means its under loaded a lot of the time. as for running a/c on too few amps, i'd try asking cruisair if you can upgrade to 3 phase chillers, the only difference on the drawings is the size of the electrical box, then install a cruisair vfd. then challenge an electrical engineer to balance the boats loads, if you 40 amps available, have the system up the a/c temp from say 72 degrees to 76. good luck! :) jon
Jon: You've asked an interesting question: "Why is no one else having this problem?" It's not an easy answer. The spec sheet for my chillers identify them as having a 12 amp current requirement and a 100 amp "locked rotor amperage." In other words, even though the chiller only uses 12 amps after it is running, it takes 100 amps to get it moving.
Now, let's look at my current situation: The boat is essentially shut down, in preperation for shipment. Almost nothing is running on the boat. However, I can only get 50 amps of power from shore power. Actually it is worse than that. I can only count on about 40 amps from the marina shore power. Let's assume that my boat is currently consuming 3 or 4 amps for the few things that are running. Thus, there should be 36 amps available to service the air conditioning. The problem is that 36 amps is not adequate to provide the 100 amps of start-up current required to get the chiller running. The boat's electrical system is made to accept high loads for very short periods. Sometimes, the chiller fires up quick, and sometimes the shore power breaker blows. Sometimes fuses blow.
The reason this usually isn't an issue is because the answer is simple: If you don't have adequate current to run the air conditioning, don't run the air conditioning. My guess is that Cruisair would be the first to say that I can't reliably start up my chiller with only 36 amps available. One way to solve this problem is with more current. 100 amp service is a solution when it is available. Running the large generator is a solution. Another solution is to swap my chillers for alternate chillers that don't require the high startup load.
To accomplish soft start, I need to swap to three phase chillers. My boat is a single-phase boat. The good news is that soft starts (called Variable Frequency Drives) are available that accept single phase input, and drive a three phase chiller.
The bottom line is that: the current chillers can be made to work, but only by providing plenty of power, and recognizing that the lights will dim from time to time, as the chillers spin up to speed. I'm trying to find a solution that allows me to operate the a/c in tight current situations. If my boat were spending most of its life sitting in a modern marina, in a fairly moderate climate, this would be a smaller issue. -Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 2:54:36 AM)
correction! the vfd can run on 1 or 3 phase but needs a 3 phase compressor to work. single phase seems to draw more amps at start up than 3 phase. jon
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 2:27:04 AM)
ken, seems a strange problem (a/c) only because no one else seems to experience it and cruisair is used by enough people you would think someone would post something, somewhere with the same problem. cruisair does sell a variable frequency drive to cure the problem you are having. the only thing i have read that could cause problems like yours is single phase output. soft start requires 3 phase to work. jon
Comment by: Visitor (6/26/2008 1:29:39 AM)
Jon: I haven't yet spoken to Victron, but I did hire an electrical engineer consultant to evaluate what they have, and sent him the specs for their inverters. We just met, for a couple of hours, last week to go through his findings. The bottom line seemed to be that Victron would be a big step forward from where I am. Specifically, the Victron inverters have an option to supplement a generator, by inverting from the batteries, and then combining the power from the generator with the inverted power from the batteries. My interest is in using this ability to handle the short spikes caused by the air conditioning chillers cycling on.
However, since that time, I've made the command decision to dump my existing chillers and buy new ones, with soft start. I should point out that Nordhavn (and, probably many others) think I am crazy to do this. Nordhavn continues to insist that they can get my chillers working fine with a few hours of effort. My only response would be that I've lived with these chillers for a year, and I have read their technical specifcations. It is physically impossible for these chillers to start without a huge amount of current (60+ amps). It may be possible to tweak my electrical system such that it can survive brief periods of excessive amperage, and lowered voltage, but I just don't want to do that. There are soft start chillers (chillers that do not require massive amounts of current to bring up to speed), and they really aren't that expensive (as compared to the cost of the boat). I'm making the command decision to make a change.
The current overload, as a result of the air conditioners, is only one of two problems I've focused on this week. The other one is the frequent power failures at Golfito, in Costa Rica. I do have auto-start on one of my generators, but it works differently than I need. This is easily fixed. I just never realized it was an issue until I had the boat to a country with poor electricity.
I will contact Victron. I also will be calling Atlas tomorrow, and am now following up with a company called Woodward, which was a referral from someone else on this board. My goal is to use this winter to get the boat as close to perfect as I can get it before we start our circumnavigation next summer.
On a vaguely related topic: I was reading my book, yesterday, about the run to Costa Rica and realized that it is an awesome book. However, I can't take the credit. The real value in the book is not my comments, but the letters I received while cruising. For whatever reason my blog, and website, seems to have collected an amazingly intelligent group of followers. I hope that people who read my blog (or the book) take the time to read the "letters to Ken" -- they're the real meat of the book, and the primary reason I do the blog. I've learned more by doing this blog, than by anything else I've done! - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (6/25/2008 11:30:48 PM)
check out victron energy also. this company has done a lot of work into creating electronic systems that work together seamlessly. they wrote a great paper on combining shore power, generator, batteries and inverters for different types of boats. they may also be willing to suggest a strategy for you. jon
Comment by: Visitor (6/25/2008 9:27:11 AM)
Jason: Thank you for a great lead. This seems to be the company:
http://www.woodward.com/power/easygen-300.cfm
Currently, my boat does have auto-start on the generator, but it is wired strangely. It was set up such that the sole use of the auto-start is in an "at anchor" situation. It strictly watches battery voltage, and kicks in the generator only if it sees low voltage. I actually used this mode for a couple months when my shore power adapter (Atlas) failed.
I'll study the Woodward website, and report back on what I find. - Ken W
Comment by: Visitor (6/25/2008 5:22:19 AM)
Ken,
I was reading your recent blog entry that described power failure issues on Sans Souci. I was surprised to hear that your boat is currently unable to automatically start/stop generators on loss of shore power. While I don't have any idea about your current electrical set up and generator controls (and what would be required to integrate a new control), you may want to consider installing an "easYgen" control for your generators. It's a Woodward powergen product that is widely used with diesel prime power and standby power requirements. This control is considered a utility grade control and is very powerful. It offers a HUGE number of features and capability but in general it can monitor "shore power" and when power is lost it can automatically start generators and bring them on-line. When power is restored it will shut-down generators and re-connect vessel with shore power. It also offers full monitoring and protection of the engine/generator as the genset is brought on-line. In addition, it is network capable so you can connect remotely to the control through the web to monitor and adjust any parameters. I will send you an e-mail with a spec sheet detailing the control.
Jason
Chuck: I've never heard of schedule F breakers. I think you are referring to breakers that are slow to blow, so that they aren't tripped by spikes. I do have commercial breakers.
My problem is that it literally takes 75 to 100 amps to start my chillers, versus only 12 amps when they are running. My 16kw generator only puts out about 65 amps. If the normal house (hotel) load is 20 to 30 amps, then the 12 amps to run a chiller is fine, but the 75 amps to get it running isn't. Most chillers only have high demand for less than a second. The models I have are new to Cruisair, and the start-up seems to take multiple seconds. This is long enough that the generator has time to lug down, and the voltage drops. Sometimes the shore power breakers trip at the pedestal, and sometimes it's the breaker inside my boat. Other times, it's fuses blowing in completely different circuits, because the amperage surges as the voltage falls. I need chillers which don't have the high current surge, or at least have a faster startup. Maybe. I am going to give Nordhavn a chance to fiddle with my electrical system, but expect I'll be ordering new chillers.
-Ken W
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